Jews: Would an Orthodox Jew Remain a Jew if Converting Away?
Jews: Would an Orthodox Jew Remain a Jew if Converting Away?
Some claim that one can remain Jewish no matter what religion they convert to away from Judaism. Do you agree that apostates are still considered part of the Jewish community?
Can Jews that commit blasphemy and begin worshiping outside of Judaism be considered still part of Judaism? There’s some ridiculous claims that some Orthodox “rabbis” became ‘messianics’ but were still part of Judaism.
Best answer:
Answer by My name is….
Obviously they think not. So why ask?
Add your own answer below.
Those who become apostates lose the ‘benefits’ of being Jewish however, they can possibly return. Thus the daughter of an apostate woman is considered a Jew-by-birth. A male apostate may not be counted as part of a minyan, nor may he be given any roles in a synagogue. A rabbi who becomes an apostate surrenders his rabbinic title the moment he accepts something other than pure Judaism.
I only know of one ‘orthodox rabbi’ who converted to xanity, and he did so into the Catholic Church. Most of those who claim to be rabbis in messianic churches are not even Jews.
I myself will respond as best as I can although I am not a Jew.
First, I think is repulsive for Christians or Jews alike to argue about conversion.
I am a believer in Yah as I have had visions since a child and my family has slowly converted from paganism to Christianity. So, I do believe in Yashuwa who s called Jesus in my language.
It is wrong to worship idols, or convert from Judaism to another faith. This is made clear in the Bible. Even for some Christian such uneven yokes are considered sinful as it might corrupt the uniqueness of Gods purpose in a people’s life, their holiness that is.
I came to faith in Yah through, Yashuwa who in no way do I feel contradicts the Old Covenants. As for Rabbinical teachings, I will put them under consideration with that of the Apostles; they are to be examined and learned from.
According to the law and the prophets, to deny God is to be deny by him, Unless your Jewish which means he will punish you as he once punished me for moving away from believing him or even going to mediums after he himself reveal this to be wrong before his eyes. I latter read the Bible and this was confirm.
Know if your Jewish and accept Yashuwa’s message, then you remain a Jew, I see no contradictions as he came not to undo the law but complete it. You see who ever follows Yashuwa must follow the law of Moses as he law of Moses speak of him.
To believe in Yashuwa is to believe that God himself was manifested in the flesh. I believe this for my family by God’s personal dealing came out of generations of paganism and converted (not to Christianity nor Judaism but God). In him was Yah, calling back man to salvation. Salvation we should all know is Yah! So if a Jew or rather child of Israel accepts Yashuwa he is but made complete, restore and enters into the new covenant which in no way abrogates the old one.
Remember within Christianity and Judaism, there are many false prophets who teach man made rules, As Yashuwa said, if they exalt themselves and not the father nor his commandments they are not of God. A kingdom cannot prosper of divided, and God is in no way divided.
Seek God and seek to be Godly, seek to walk in the Almighty’s Covenant, and seek to please Yah! That is all that matters. Jeremiah, and many other prophets were persecuted and looked down upon because they were Godly, those pursued them did it in “God’s name” so called Cohanims and Levites.
Latter the Gentiles did and continue to do the same. Before God stepped in, I would be beat with a belt, punished and taunted by my family for assisting a non-denominational House of Worship dedicated to Yah!
For years, like Jews many rue followers of Christ are persecuted and killed in the name of Yah for following Yashuwa. You see in many Latin American countries Catholics, atheist governments or others go after converts.
Heretics to the true way have existed always within Judaism and Christianity
Religion does not safe, nor tradition
Follow his commandments and Love Yah above all things for his was commanded in the Old and New Testament
Do I believe Yashuwa is a part of a trinity? No this is a corruption
Do I believe he was Yah on Earth? Yes, as I came to Yah through him and no other
What about Christianity? Most Christian follow Paul’s doctrine which they tend to put above the word of God, who became flesh and is Yashuwa. They are religious and traditionalist and pay no attention to what the Lord has mandated. One extreme follows the commandments and shows no mercy. The other ignores that the commandments must be followed as testament to the woks of Yah in us (our hearts).
So to just answer your question; no to any pagan religion (including pagan strains of Hellenic Christianity)and yes to Christianity it they continue to acknowledged One Aloha who happens to be Yah as Jesus was a manifestation of Yah and came not to thwart the law but have men fulfill it
BtW , all I speak is as revealed to me and all revelation must coincide with the Word or Old and Yahshwa’s message which he himself stated must be made evidentin prior revelations of the Torah and Prophets
No Jewish individual claims that one can remain Jewish no matter what religion they convert to if they leave Judaism….only groups of individuals that target the Jews for conversion claim that, for reasons that are obvious. I’ve also noticed a trend in Messis: They all appear to be Cohens (as do radical Muslims who claim to have once been Jews. One might think that we either have an endless arsenal of Cohenim, or they have all converted to other religions), they have all lost family members in HaShoah (unusual for a group that has origins among the American WASPs), and they come from lines of Rabbis. Some of them even have ‘simchas’ from ‘Yeshivas’ that either don’t exist, are in a country other than the one they insist it is in (I had one Messi insist that his ‘Israeli’ Yeshiva was not in Brazil…even after I e-mailed him countless weblinks to it), or are obviously seminaries (eg, Yeshiva Shel Ahavah Ha’Yeshua HaMashiach or something).
All along, and for millenia, the Jewish notion of who is a Jew is clear: Those who are in the Jewish community are converts TO Judaism and those who are born to a Jewish mother. Those who convert out are no longer members of the Jewish community….the Torah is full of examples that demonstrate this.
Some Messi charges to the contrary are:
—That one can be Jewish and atheist/agnostic, even though Jews have explained to them before, many times, in very clear and simply language, that atheists and agnostics have NOT converted to another religion, merely lapsed in their faith. Even non-Jewish atheists and agnostics will tell you the same thing—-they do not follow a religion, and cosmological viewpoints among these individuals differ radically from each other. The Jewish community excludes ONLY those who actively convert to another religion.
–That Jews target only Chrisitans….when Sabbatai Tzvi, a Jewish individual so influential that many considered him a possible Maschiach, was considered to be no longer Jewish the instant he and a few followers converted to Islam.
–That Jews don’t complain about JewBus or Jewitches…the reason being obvious. When was the last time anyone has ever been walking to a Jewish event on their college campus and assaulted by a crowd of JewBus who insisted that they can be “Jewish and Buddhists” at the same time. Or that last time a crowd of Jewitches gathered outside of a JCC to target the elderly and those isolated from the Jewish community? Is there a JewBu organization that has contributed billions to converting the Jews? No. Jews only respond to misconceptions when they attack us directly. Messis are not special in this regard—many Jews have pointed out that “JewsforAllah” is run by a fanatic who threatens the Jewish community with physical harm copiously, has ties to terrorists, and is under FBI surveillance. In a word: Messis aren’t as ‘special’ to the Jews as they think they are.
–That they can remain Jews if they insist that their new religion is Judaism: Need not be refuted, the gaps in the logic are obvious. Typically, this takes the form of “Jesus was a Jew” (so is Woody Allen, should we worship him?). “The first Christians were Jews” (it was obvious enough to the surrounding peoples that they followed a new religion). That Chrisitanity is ‘completed Judaism’ (not according to Judaism, which has the final word on what completes it and what does not).
Peace
EDIT: IF they were ever Cohenim, yes, they would lose status. However, I doubt that they ever were Cohens…it’s just too popular of a claim for a Messi to say that he was one.
Once someone goes through an Orthodox Conversion(only one that makes you considered Jewish), or were born Jewish, then they are always considered Jews. Once they leave they get a punishment called Karet-spiritually being cut-off, once the person dies they will not have a share in Olam Habah, the only way to stop this is to be Chozer B’Tushvah at the end of their life. That is besides the point, it is true that once a Jew leaves Judaism yes he is still Jewish Halachikly,but he may not call himself Jewish. If he wants to return to Judaism he does not have to convert. Since I know that you are talking about Messainics, I will tell you that yes Jews, and Orthodox converts, are still Jewish, but may not call themselves Jewish, until they return to Judaism.
Edit:Aryeh is correct. It is written in Shulchan Aruch:They cannot be part of a Minyan, and they cannot be called Rabbi anymore. One way you can tell if they are Apikoruses is if they skip the Bracha of Lamalshinim.
Edit:I think if they are Cohanim, or Leviim, then they lose that status. Correct me if I’m wrong.
No. Religiously speaking they are no longer Jewish.
They can repent though.